I'm definitely a fan of mixing models. I tend to start with a very vague idea and some characters, so I'll use something like the 7-point structure to get the outline of a story. Then I'll flesh it out with story circle, save the cat, etc., adding meat to the bones, so to speak, with each iteration.
My current project has a female protagonist, and she is definitely on a journey of emergence in the face of external expectations. So I appreciate you bringing Virgin's Promise to my attention! Definitely something I'll be learning more about in the near future.
That's great to hear, and I am totally excited that the Virgin's Promise resonated. Keep in mind that male protagonists can also walk the virgin's path!
I look forward to learning more about your stories and your process.
Thank you K.Lynn, I like the image of falling inward...for me it describes what it feels like when I am fully invested in that inward search for personal truth.
By the way... we might be related...I adopted the name 'jlynn' for myself decades ago. What do you think? LOL 'JL' is for Jennifer Lynn, btw.
Yeah, I think if you are going to plot through a story or character arc and using only one model, it’s definitely going to appear flat. Maybe appropriate for some kinds of stories but generally not as fulfilling as thinking through things in multiple ways.
Absolutely agree—and I hope I didn’t imply that using multiple frameworks is some sparkling new revelation. What fascinates me lately is how few writers seem to consciously layer or adapt different models, even though many probably do so intuitively. Fiction is still a new frontier for me, so I often find myself dazzled by ideas that may have been circling other writers’ minds for years. It’s like the awe of stained glass and taking time to appreciate how the light refracts through each lens.
Well, I can only write fiction by framing it as non-fiction. I wrote fiction more when I was younger (high school and before) but now when I try to write "straight fiction" I find myself getting more interested in philosophical tangents than character development etc. So I decided to write a pretend history instead, lol. BTW, Will Storr's "The Science of Storytelling" might be of interest to you too.
Thank you, and I’m surprised I have not acquired Storr’s text yet - it’s long been on my list. To be sure, it is your 'nonfiction' style that has me so deeply interested in Implicate Orders.
I am pretty sure you will find it useful; it's been over 3 years since I read it but if I recall correctly his main idea -- that the protaganist needs to be fundamentally wrong about some aspect of their life and the story is about how that wrong worldview causes problems and must be overcome -- seems to be circling some of the same ideas you are.
I am halfway through the article, but I have a question. Have you read In Ascension by Martin MacInnes, and, if so, how would the protagonist, Leigh, fit into a feminine arc type? Leigh's sister's description of Leigh riveted me towards the end of the novel. The novel also strikes me as an example of first and last contact, kind of. At least that is what I took away from the story.
Apis Dea - I have just finished the first two chapters of In Ascension and must quickly return, but I certainly have read enough to see that Leigh is on/needs to be on a heroine's journey. In this early beginning she is showing all the signs of being a 'father's daughter' and beginning to identify with the masculine--a stage in Murdock's Heroine's Journey which approximately corresponds, I believe, to what Hudson names 'the 'price of conformity' in the virgin's promise. MacInnes is brilliant in such a calm way -- so far! I cannot wait to see how Leigh's arc develops.
I have not read In Ascension, but it very much has my attention now. The little review I have done of MacInnes's works suggests that Leigh does indeed traverse at least some of a Heroine's arc. I suspect more and more stories will.
I'm tempted to place the book in my shopping basket. :-) Maybe then we could have a proper discussion about Leigh. And I am totally intrigued with the first AND last contact scenario.
Also, interesting title and spoiler (?) alert: My next scheduled post includes a look at a short story of mine, called 'Last of the Ascension' (probably not a final draft.
Thanks for being a great reader ... and for growing my to-be-read (TBR) list.
P.S. Am I the only one still defining acronyms before I use them? LOL
I'm definitely a fan of mixing models. I tend to start with a very vague idea and some characters, so I'll use something like the 7-point structure to get the outline of a story. Then I'll flesh it out with story circle, save the cat, etc., adding meat to the bones, so to speak, with each iteration.
My current project has a female protagonist, and she is definitely on a journey of emergence in the face of external expectations. So I appreciate you bringing Virgin's Promise to my attention! Definitely something I'll be learning more about in the near future.
That's great to hear, and I am totally excited that the Virgin's Promise resonated. Keep in mind that male protagonists can also walk the virgin's path!
I look forward to learning more about your stories and your process.
I like the concept of "falling inward."
Thank you K.Lynn, I like the image of falling inward...for me it describes what it feels like when I am fully invested in that inward search for personal truth.
By the way... we might be related...I adopted the name 'jlynn' for myself decades ago. What do you think? LOL 'JL' is for Jennifer Lynn, btw.
Yeah, I think if you are going to plot through a story or character arc and using only one model, it’s definitely going to appear flat. Maybe appropriate for some kinds of stories but generally not as fulfilling as thinking through things in multiple ways.
Absolutely agree—and I hope I didn’t imply that using multiple frameworks is some sparkling new revelation. What fascinates me lately is how few writers seem to consciously layer or adapt different models, even though many probably do so intuitively. Fiction is still a new frontier for me, so I often find myself dazzled by ideas that may have been circling other writers’ minds for years. It’s like the awe of stained glass and taking time to appreciate how the light refracts through each lens.
Well, I can only write fiction by framing it as non-fiction. I wrote fiction more when I was younger (high school and before) but now when I try to write "straight fiction" I find myself getting more interested in philosophical tangents than character development etc. So I decided to write a pretend history instead, lol. BTW, Will Storr's "The Science of Storytelling" might be of interest to you too.
Thank you, and I’m surprised I have not acquired Storr’s text yet - it’s long been on my list. To be sure, it is your 'nonfiction' style that has me so deeply interested in Implicate Orders.
I am pretty sure you will find it useful; it's been over 3 years since I read it but if I recall correctly his main idea -- that the protaganist needs to be fundamentally wrong about some aspect of their life and the story is about how that wrong worldview causes problems and must be overcome -- seems to be circling some of the same ideas you are.
Sounds similar to understanding the ‘wound’ and the ‘lie the protagonist believes.’ I look forward to the read and thanks for the recommendation.
I am halfway through the article, but I have a question. Have you read In Ascension by Martin MacInnes, and, if so, how would the protagonist, Leigh, fit into a feminine arc type? Leigh's sister's description of Leigh riveted me towards the end of the novel. The novel also strikes me as an example of first and last contact, kind of. At least that is what I took away from the story.
Apis Dea - I have just finished the first two chapters of In Ascension and must quickly return, but I certainly have read enough to see that Leigh is on/needs to be on a heroine's journey. In this early beginning she is showing all the signs of being a 'father's daughter' and beginning to identify with the masculine--a stage in Murdock's Heroine's Journey which approximately corresponds, I believe, to what Hudson names 'the 'price of conformity' in the virgin's promise. MacInnes is brilliant in such a calm way -- so far! I cannot wait to see how Leigh's arc develops.
I have not read In Ascension, but it very much has my attention now. The little review I have done of MacInnes's works suggests that Leigh does indeed traverse at least some of a Heroine's arc. I suspect more and more stories will.
I'm tempted to place the book in my shopping basket. :-) Maybe then we could have a proper discussion about Leigh. And I am totally intrigued with the first AND last contact scenario.
Also, interesting title and spoiler (?) alert: My next scheduled post includes a look at a short story of mine, called 'Last of the Ascension' (probably not a final draft.
Thanks for being a great reader ... and for growing my to-be-read (TBR) list.
P.S. Am I the only one still defining acronyms before I use them? LOL
Great overview! And thanks for the recommendations on further reading.
I appreciate defining acronyms. I wish the AI crowd would do the same.
Absolutely thank you. And absolutely my pleasure!